Cllr Dr Ian Adamson writes further –

I was most interested in your reference to Bryan Sykes' book Blood of the Isles.When I first read it I was struck by his lack of knowledge of the Cruthin in Ireland.

He also speaks of the importance of not conflating language and ethnic origin and then proceeds to do precisely that.The term Celt is primarily a linguistic one and may not be used to describe ethnic origin any more than English may.

Furthermore I find it hard to treat anyone seriously who uses the terms P-Gaelic and Q-Gaelic. Nevertheless the scientific data are useful and still valuable to his peers though some of them may well be overawed by his celebrity status. That there are still scientists who are still able to make up their own minds about this is very reassuring. Please see further correspondence from Tim Owen

P-Celtic and Q-Celtic are the proper terms…I think that Sykes's use of the terms P-Gaelic and Q-Gaelic are nonsense since Gaelic is Q-Celtic and you cannot have something that is P-Celtic and Q-Celtic at the same time

And Dr Tim Owen adds –

When you re-read Sykes's 'Blood of the Isles', you will come across a reference to 'pockets of old Wodans' in the so-called Pictish areas of Scotland and in parts of Wales. Sykes conjectures in the book that these signatures ['Wodan' is his name for I haplogroup] are ancient, Mesolithic and probably 'echoes' of the Picts. I recently contacted him about this and he has actually changed his mind. Now he says that the signatures are probably in G2 haplogroup. He ran my YDNA results through his database and they were not the same. To reiterate, based on a short, 10 marker haplotype, Sykes sticks to his original view that my own I2a2 [old I1b1] signature is of 'probable Anglo-Saxon or Danish Viking origin'.

Now, I think it is quite possible that Germanic invaders such as the lower-Elbe Saxons might possibly have brought my I2a2 dna to Britain, as there is still a [very small] I2a2 presence across the north German plain, but I2a2 is absent in Scandinavia.

Another company, Family Genetics did a more 'advanced' 43 marker ydna test and informed me that it fell exactly within Ken Nordtvedt's [amateur] I2a2-Isles clade. Nordtvedt himself attested to this. In his view, my I2a2 is a link to Britain's earliest post-LGM settlers.

Here, however, is my own, entirely subjective speculation about I2a2 in Britain….

I think that I2a2 came to Britain in several different 'waves'.

Firstly, I conjecture that it first entered Scotland from northern Germany via Doggerland [the oldest clade, B1] going on to Ireland to 'give birth', so to speak to the other 'younger' clades like C and D. This was most likely in the late Mesolithic, and may be linked to the narrow-blade culture and ultimately the Cruthin. The distribution of I2a2 in Ireland in particular, with Roscommon [Rathcloghan] and Ulster featuring large, especially re C and D subclades makes me think-CRUTHIN.

Secondly, there is a pattern also emerging of a possible link between higher incidences of I2a2 and surnames/clanns of Erainn legend, such as O'Driscoll, O'Grady, Keane etc. I conjecture that some I2a2 was possibly brought from Britain to Ireland in a later period by Brythonic-speaking tribes like the Brigantes and possibly the Fir Bolg/Belgae.

Thirdly, Ireland does not have a monopoly on Nordtvedt's I2a2-Isles clade, and there is a fair distribution in England and Scotland for a tiny clade. I conjecture that it is possible [as Sykes seems to believe] that some I2a2 was brought by Germanics such as the Saxons in the so-called 'Dark Ages'.

Regarding Ireland, I suggest that the bulk of I2a2b-Isles probably dates to the first 'wave', and does most likely represent the Cruthin, at least in part. Certainly the distribution of subclades C and D [see Aiden Mulvihill's map] in Roscommon and Ulster bring to mind The Ancient Kindred.

It is quite possible that the Cruthin carried other haplogroups, such as other varieties of I haplogroup and maybe some varieties of R1b. I suspet that they did not carry the M22 positive variety of R1b though, which I associate with Gaels. Up to now, I2a2-Isles, with its age and distribution, seems to me to be the best candidate for a posible link to the Cruthin.

Code: Picts

Blog Links

Genes of the Cruthin, by Cllr Dr Ian Adamson Friday, May 7. 2010

Modern Genetics, Saturday, May 8. 2010

“Ulster” Part 4, Wednesday, December 3. 2008

What is British?: Part 1, Friday, January 26. 2007

Links

Cruthin – Wikipedia

DALARADIA-Kingdom of the Cruthin, by DR. IAN ADAMSON

The Settlement of Ulster – LISBURN.COM